A: I’m confused how mentioning that bathroom politics have crept up in the past 10 years in Unfactual. The bills you mentioned were literally proposed within the last decade. I guess you are just a stickler and wanted me to be date specific. I guess that’s my bad. One could say that bathroom debate began in 2013 with the Colorado ruling regarding Coy Mathis’ right to use a restroom that matched her gender identity. So if you want to get technical, it’s been 6 years. Jump to 2016; the Charlotte law that you are trying to spin as created by the left actually changed existing language such that individuals would not be discriminated against based on “sex.” They removed that word and replaced it with Gender, thus creating the basis by which HB2 was conceived. I guess you could say that the “Left kicked off the trans legislation surge” by changing established law to be considerate of Transgender individuals.
This almost immediately lead to the passing of HB2; in the wake of HB2, you have the Obama Administration stepping in and suing North Carolina in May 2016. The following month the administration would further it’s push for the rights of LGBTQ people which it had already advanced in 2011 with the repeal of “Don’t Ask Don’t Tell” by allowing Transgender service members to serve openly. These acts of consideration for the equal rights of Transgender individuals proved triggering for a lot of the country’s conservative legislatures, and inevitably resulted in bathroom bills being proposed in dozens of states (including my own); yet none have gained traction.
As you acknowledge, we have used facilities that we’ve identified with since time immemorial. Nothing happened before, and nothing is happening now.
B: You got real selective with my statement to highlight the only point you could argue. But you probably should have registered the whole thing instead of trying to nitpick. The more complete version of my quote read; “You essentially are stating that anyone with a penis IS a rapist. The very idea is preposterous, and you know it, yet you are using a body part to determine where a person should potty.”
You take the position of false feminist to imply that SPECIFICALLY Trans women should not use female facilities because our presence would be triggering to victims of sexual assault. I say “specifically” because you completely ignored Trans Men, especially when confronted with how those victims of sexual assault would be triggered seeing a man like Buck in there with them. 1 in ever 6 women is a victim of rape. The statistical likelihood of being in anywhere in the world near someone who has been a victim is going to be close to 100%. Yet you default to the fact that these women ought not have to share space with “biological” men. This is where things are going to go sideways.
Firstly you presume that we’ll be clocked as such. As I previously mentioned, we tend to want to pass to avoid these hassles to begin with. Secondly, how would a random person in a restroom even know someone was Transgender unless they wore it on their shirt like I did? There are a lot of masculine Cis women in this world. What one deems a “tell” can simply be genetics. Thirdly, I actually don’t know if I fit the definition of “biological” male; I’ve never had my chromosomes tested. Fourthly, how would one set out to ensure that only biologically aligned individuals can use gender specific facilities? Are you going to federally mandate that every person in the country have their chromosomes tested? Then what? Are you going to stamp it on an ID like a huge Scarlet Letter?
And what of those individuals who don’t conform to XX, XY chromosomes?
I believe you conveniently chose to ignore the nuance of Intersex individuals in your original comment, so let’s go there, shall we? When an intersex child is born, the parents have often been prodded to make a decision on gender shortly after birth; subsequently the child is reassigned and raised as the parents see fit. This practice has become notorious for denouncing the sovereignty of the individual to self-identify; and this is essentially the same issue that Trans people face. Just as that intersex kid may come to learn that they don’t identify as the gender they were assigned, a Trans person will experience that same epiphany. But as you so choose to see individuals as Biologically one sex or the other, who then are YOU to decide how that intersex person should identify. BTW, the rate of intersex births is believed to be 1 in 1500–2000 births, or roughly equal to the statistical likelihood of being born a redhead. So this condition is not rare. If you have no agency to determine the biology of an intersex person, what gives you the authority to determine the biology of a trans person?
Your predilection here is to prevent assault victims from being triggered, but when one’s aim is to be as passable as possible, and the “safe spaces” you speak of would not have instances of exposure to one’s nudity, how do you suspect those victims will ever know if the person in that space is biologically any different than themselves?
C: Here you’re trying to reinforce B. You say you don’t care where I pee, but the presumption that my presence will negatively affect the ciswomen in my space was proven with my travels. THAT’S the point I was trying to make. You talk about the validity of one’s feelings, yet it’s statistically more dangerous for me to utilize male facilities than women’s facilities. I am a woman, and I am not going to intentionally place my body in a position of danger because you seek to direct me as such. The implication that I should is offensive. In this same argument you reference the “the power and influence than (sic) biological males have already had over biological females in Western societies.” You literally are attempting to assert your own biological influence upon this woman, thus reinforcing your own statement. You tell me I will trigger assault victims, while indicating that having respect for them means that I SHOULD place myself in a position to potentially become an assault victim. This is the dichotomy of the false feminist. You are incapable of ever seeing me as female, and that’s the core of the problem.
D: Yes, it COULD happen that some sicko will dress up to commit said crime. But in doing so they will prove nothing more than how criminality is a statistical anomaly. Surely if an actual Trans person commits a crime it’s not a castigation of the whole community; though many do love the straw-man argument. Unfortunately I can just as easily point out that the vast majority of mass shootings are carried out by cisgender white men. That’s not a chastisement of every cisgender white man, it’s a statement that blanket assessments based upon minimal fact cannot incite retribution against a whole collection of individuals. The constant reiteration that biological males ought not to share space with women because they’ve been victims is a reflection of you highlighting the propensity of men to commit assault. Hence the presumption that having a penis leads to a false assumption about how it will be utilized. As you and I have already BOTH stated, not all men are rapists; some are. Therefore having a penis does not make one predisposed to committing sexual assault. And again, how does any woman in these spaces even make the conclusion of ones anatomy when they’ll only be seeing them fully clothed?
E: “I’m not surprised, since you said that you expected people to mess with you in those bathrooms; the abuse you expected to take was probably more in your mind than in other’s. I have a penis; why would I say that anyone with a penis is a sex offender, or one waiting to be?”
Do you even read the news? Since it’s my business to keep up on how my community is being portrayed in the media, you can bet that I do. I consume it all. And for every 1 trans positive piece there are at least a dozen being written by people who are being just as binary, opinionated, fact-denying, and Transphobic as you are. If you take enough of that into yourself, it does make one concerned for their safety. I have already highlighted that the presumption of men’s statistical likelihood to commit sexual assault has driven your narrative; it’s LITERALLY the reason you don’t want me in “safe spaces.” It’s really offensive when you claim you’re not saying these things, but it’s actually clear that you are. This is typical gaslighting. Just as every conservative says the Trans community has the same rights as they always had, the evidence to the contrary is vast, and it’s piling up. This is why I steel myself against these assaults. Maybe it’s the fact that I am stronger statured that I am not challenged; maybe it’s because of my skin tone, my tattoos, or maybe, just maybe it’s because the attacks levied against my community are being done by spineless individuals who deride me from the safety that’s garnered by their anonymous internet handle. The latter seems more apt since I’ve had my travel epiphanies.
F: I did write a lot, and no there aren’t leaps in logic. The trans men in women’s rooms was conveniently ignored. Odd since they’d (in your mind) be biological females who would be in a men’s space. Are they safe? You’re implication is that they are not.
The matters pertaining to causality are not exaggerated. Successfully and safely transitioning begins with acceptance from family, friends, and employers. If any or all of those things fail, the individual's chance for a happy healthy life are significantly diminished. This is not hyperbole. It’s easy to deny a person’s reality when you yourself will never experience it first-hand.
You said “ No one that I know is trying to “erase” trans people or “pretend that they don’t exist” Seriously? Read the link; since this administration took office we’ve been in the crosshairs. And please stop with the gaslighting. After the administration took steps to define gender the Trans-Lifeline received four times the amount calls it would have otherwise received. Do you legitimately not understand how threatened we feel? I myself accelerated my transition because I couldn’t afford that this administration would begin making it more difficult to do so. Can you imagine what it’s like for someone who is just coming out, and realizing that this administration is creating obstacles that will make their life more difficult that it needs to be? Do you see how the challenges we face (created by an unsupportive society and an bigoted administration) make suicide a palatable option? Do you care?
You ignored the IOC’s strict standards for MTF athletes which since their introduction has kept anyone from even qualifying. And As I said, if a trans person qualifies, and actually wins, you’d be one of the first people to cry foul. Even when we win against all odds, you will paint us as losers. If there is a blueprint for denying someone their humanity, you are following it to the T.
We don’t want “Special Privileges” we want equal dignity. Again, denying rights for something that boils down to a birth defect is problematic. It’s ableism in its pure form. I’m sorry if being “woke” is so offensive to you. Thus far, my existence has not been lived trying to hamper yours, but it would appear that you have expressed an interest in hampering mine.
Don’t worry about the “safe spaces,” so long as I’m there, they are actually safer spaces.
